Wednesday, November 18, 2009


Apparently Jerry Saltz has deleted his big facebook thread with the pigpile on Tyler Green. If you saved that conversation send it to me and I'll post it here. Discretion assured!

UPDATE!: wrongly worded above... i'm not facebook friends with jerry and had not realized there are/were multiple new museum debate threads. i'm just interested in reposting the new museum debate stuff... for those of us not in the 4500 club.


Anonymous said...

You should know and consider that Jerry deleted the post because it was malicious, false and because he realized that the publication of such was potentially problematic.


Martin said...

hey tyler - i'm asking for any of the new museum debate thread(s), for the many of us not facebook friends with jerry and who were unable to read it.

i hadn't realized there were multiple threads. i'm not interested in reposting the personal attacks made against you.

kalm james said...

Strange how this story started with a bunch of loud declarations, and is now becoming silent through a fear of reprisals, put downs and exclusions. It's about the insiders vs. the outsiders.

zipthwung said...


was posted over there - pretty neat.

If someone has the thread then

zipthwung said...

[redacted] but i think [redacted] if you want to go there I [reacted].

zipthwung said...

resolved, htis house likes champagne art.

Martin said...

silence. no one wants to share the threads. enjoy your perceived inclusion.

kelli said...

I can't help it: the only thing I think about when I think about Tyler Green is the fact that I don't get to read the Christian Viveiros Faune column in the Voice anymore. I think he was shaping up to be a grumpy but independent voice in the insular world of art criticism.

So, ummm thanks to him for making things more boring and orthodox in a city he doesn't even live in.

Martin said...

that last article by jerry was classic deflection and evidently it worked.

what exactly is keeping cvf from writing about art? did they confiscate his computer? if he feels he can only write for the voice i guess he is not THAT independent.

Anonymous said...

i think Kelli makes a good point. i think Green often reveals his distaste for NYC from afar.

zipthwung said...

yeah well CVF was also the co-owner of former Roebling Hall and yeah, well he was working for an art fair which he could have recused himself from. He was an insider.

The brand of the Village voice, traditionally, is a Marxist populist voice of the people.

Critics are outsiders. They are assholes. They take vows of poverty and live in squalid apartments surrounded by ashtrays and beer bottles.

Even if you liked his writing or thought his ideas were original or exciting, or thought he was knowledgeable, or that he had a flair for pulling in metaphorical shibboleths like kudzu, orgone boxes and other seeming non-sequiturs, or knitted together what everybody was thinking but could not articulate, or had a handle on the zeitgeist, or had a unique and compelling point of view or was just kind of funny, you have to ask yourself what a critic is.

Be critical!

Many of the ideas he wrote aobut were freely available on the internet. That makes him a reporter.

If reporters can sell and collect art, then th NYT needs to revise its ethical guidelines.

Or business needs to go on as usual.

now im fucking grumpy. What the fuck did I do all afternoon? Look at some goddamned bullshit computer code? Fuck CVF and fuck all ten of his VV columns, especially the one where he called "Unmonumental" boring, even if Urs Fischer was in it. Blah blah blah. Just goes to show the limits of criticism.